Fitting Appointments

[hereticus]

I'm opening a new thread on which it would be helpful to get as much feedback as possible please, either in open forum or by personal message if you wish to keep your head down.

We are seeing a lot of posts about forced diary availability, veiled threats from FSM's if you don't give more time to Hillarys, and long lead to diary times. Diaries are also being clogged up with service calls, and advisors seem to be doing more mileage than used to be the case.

It seems to me that all of this boils down to one fundamental cause, which is the lack of flexibility due to having to book fit dates at the time of sale !

In the good old days we used to tell the customers 2/3 weeks delivery, wait until the blinds had been received, then phone the customer to arrange a fitting appointment, usually slotting this in around sales appointments in the same postcode area. In fact many of us still work this way and the fit date that we put in on SAM is often fictitious and has never been discussed with the customer.

Personally I estimate that about one in twelve fits is actually fixed with the customer at the time of sale and entered into SAM accurately. Fifty per cent of fits are totally flexible because customers are generally available (retired, work from home, mums who don't work, etc) and for the rest I make a general note on my copy of the order as a reminder of availability (i.e mornings only, doesn't work on Friday, etc) so that I can schedule in my diary with some confidence before even making the phone call. I also usually carry a few spare blinds in the car so that on a good day when I am running ahead of schedule I can literally phone the customer on spec and go straight round to fit.

All this works well for me and works well for customers - in fact, when I did try to conform to the system, many customers did not like the idea of being pinned down to a specific appointment time three weeks ahead.

The problem, though, is that although most of the fit dates in SAM are false, or at least flexible, they are still clogging up availability and making it more difficult for sales calls to be booked in within reasonable time and at the customer's convenience. So we end up with gaps in our diaries, sitting at home with nothing to do, whilst getting it in the neck because CLG can't fit in leads within the prescribed four days. A further problem is that, having reserved diary slots for a fit, the blinds often don't turn up in time anyway so that slot is totally wasted and another slot has to be reserved.

So - why can't we get rid of it ? What was the logic of insisting on booking fits at the time of sale anyway ? Who does it benefit ? It doesn't particularly help us, it doesn't often help the customer, production don't seem to take much notice, and as for despatch - well, don't let me get started on despatch.

It does make sense for production to have some target dates to work to but they don't need to be so specific. My suggestion would be for SAM to offer two options as follows :

- ability to enter a fitting appointment as now, reserving slots in the diary, for those instances where it has been specifically agreed with the customer, and also for those advisors who do like the discipline of forward planning in detail

- in all other instances to have the alternative option of specifying a 'van date' on which we require the blinds to be delivered, but not reserving any diary slots for the fitting appointment.

We could then work fitting appointments around the gaps between sales leads, improving our efficiency, reducing our mileage, and opening up considerably more availability for booking sales leads. The only down side that I can envisage is too many sales calls leaving no time for fits but then it is a simple matter to phone diary maintenance and amend availability to make time.

Would love to see lots of thoughts and comments from other advisors on this subject and, if there is a consensus of opinion, perhaps we could make a case for change.

[RED]

Agree with loads that you say Hereticus, but the simple explanation to all our problems and Hillary's is Sam. Its inflexible restraints put on the advisor's the pressure put on the CLG team. The interference of upper management making changes Willy nilly with not the vaguest idea of what they are doing nor the repercussions it will have. Its all too Big brotherish.
The advisor's themselves when left to run the agency on their own did a far better job, they knew the score.
OK, some may not ever want to go back to answering the phone all the time but the old adage is, If you are self employed and the phone not ringing then you are in trouble.
CLG is an under staffed, virtually no product knowledge and an overworked department. It has a huge turnover of staff due to the demands put on them by adviser's and other departments within Hillary's with the knock on effect that production can not keep up and so your fitting dates take a knock. Other departments in turn suffer so the knock on effect gets bigger. Which in turn means every advisor and every department is chasing their own tails, day after day and so the demoralization of sales and H/Office staff completes the circle, and the spiral goes down even more.
Sam, as far as top management are concerned is the bees knees, the way forward, the future.
I remember a certain Sir Clive Sinclair had a similar scenario with a small electric car called the C5. He thought it was the future, he envisaged every one driving round in one and put everything in to it. He went bankrupt a few years later.
Will Hillarys top management listen to their advisors?, I doubt it. We know nothing.
Sir Clive did not listen when he was told by his advisors not to do it.
I myself do not use the SAM generated fitting times and do stress to the customer that I will contact them as soon as the blinds are in. This does not stop the customer requesting and ringing CLG for a date when to expect me. Bear in mind that all my fittings go down for 9.00 am on a Tuesday morning so as to leave me with open spaces to add sales, So a customer rings in as did this week, to be told it will be 9.00am on Tuesday morning, Does not matter that so are 15 other customers all booked for a fictional 9.00am Tuesday. Common sense, out the window, some are good at the job and do ring me to check, some are not. So Tuesday afternoon a call comes through, you were supposed to be at such and such at 9.00am. I ring the customer to get a right ear bashing.
Does not matter that I am full of cold and my son is off ill from school. His blinds are more important and he was assured I would be their at 9.00 am. Then the usual, I have taken a day off work to have them fitted, blahdy, bladhdy, blah.
So I reschedule all todays sales and fits to accommodate him as best I can. He now realizes its not my fault and acknowledges that I have been as helpful as I can and says " I will ring Hillary's to say how helpful you have been but not impressed with them one bit.
Oh no, thinks I, theres a 20% discount for all his trouble and a reduction in my commission for CLGs inadequacies.
Sorry to go on but hey, if you cant blow off steam on here you would throttle someone.

Just a typical day in the life of an adviser now!. Gone are the days when all we had to moan about was DORs. This is insignificant compared to the other stuff being thrown our way now.

Red

[JoY]

We would gladly do away with fits at sale....

ALL ours are ficticious, as we book customers in when we actually have the blinds!! ( Far less hassle than having to apologise when they don't turn up!)

This works well until the customer phones Hillarys instead of us to enquire how much longer they will be, and Hillarys tell them we are down in our diary to fit at 9pm on Sunday!!! Then of course we don't turn up at 9pm on Sunday...........

Yes..... please give us the choice of either booking a fit or not booking a fit at sale . It maybe works for some.. .but most definitely not for us.


___________________________________________

Just read RED's comments.....to see he has the same trouble. How many other agents ??

How much more complicated can "they" make this job???

You have hit the nail on the head Joy, How much more complicated can they make it?.
Red

[gloryboy]

i actually book the fits at sale and although when orders miss the van and need courier or waiting till following week i scream blue murder, i think that usually i'd say over 90% arrive on time and therefore i only need to ring a few customers to rearrange rather than everyone to book in. it would be nice to have the option offered by hereticus, but i think this system is here to stay.
its an old chestnut but if COMMUNICATION was better even the problem of late deliveries could be overcome, the recent shambles involving venetians would have been avoided if we'd been told they were having problems coping and expect an extra week.
the same with out of stock, recently been taking orders on SAM only to get home check the oos report and find fabric etc has gone oos that day, so SAM takes the order only for it to go straight into query.

[tojaws]

I do exactly the same as JoYnMick and have done sine SAM's inception - Book to fit is a waste of time. It was probably instigated to massage the figures ready for the next buyout.

Don't underestimate Hillarys - they always be able to come up with ideas to make the job 'more complicated'

[grumperbear]

l ring customer when blinds arrive.

lf l have got the blinds then l can fit them.
lf l have not got them then l can not fit them.


lf you book the fitting at the time of sale the results are:-
Lots of part orders, missing orders etc. You mess the customer up, Hillarys mess you up.
And you end up sitting around doing nothing, and not getting paid.

[kwikfitfitter]

I too book fits at time of sale but 3 weeks instead of 2, very few problems with late deliverys up until last 3 weeks, but even then its only 3 orders.
I much prefer it this way, i think theres enough admin to do without having to ring customers to book fits and it helps me to plan ahead 'cos its all there on Sammy boy

[gloryboy]

kwikfitfitter said:

I too book fits at time of sale but 3 weeks instead of 2, very few problems with late deliverys up until last 3 weeks, but even then its only 3 orders.
I much prefer it this way, i think theres enough admin to do without having to ring customers to book fits and it helps me to plan ahead 'cos its all there on Sammy boy

phew thought it was only me!

[thelloydgang]

Hi there

I don't have a problem with arranging fit date at point of sale as I have a seperate fit diary account so does not interfere with my lead account. I probably work a lot different to most other advisor's as I have a fitter. My only problem is with the service calls being put in my lead diary as my fitter does these!

Might be an idea to set up a seperate fit account for your business to overcome this problem as a short term solution. The only thing is you won't be able to see the fit details once it's been sent via sam to your new account and you won't be able to take balance payments via sam........will have to use traditional invoice payments. I use a paper diary to book the installs into.....oh and another downside for you would be just having to contact diary maintenance to take out your availability each time you book an install! Just a thought.........might help some of you.

I've also started to book fits 3 weeks later rather than 2 as we were not receiving orders in time for fit dates and also not being contacted by head office to let us know!

Originally I was dead set against booking fits at sale's but now I must admit it's taken a lot of pressure of me contacting all customers every week........used to be my Sunday job! And most customers are happy to arrange a fit date. Occassionally, I leave it that the customer will ring me when they're ready for blinds and just put a fit date in 3 weeks anyway.

Hope this might be of some use.

[thelloydgang]

HI

Just had a thought about the seperate fit diary.......if you come across an obstacle for raising one....you can always "employ" a fitter and just "sell" yourself so will definately need a seperate fit diary!

;D

[BlindWizard]

This must be a first for a long time, I'm going to agree with the company line. I worked for Hillarys for 6 months before SAM and booking fits at time of sale came to our area. I processed my first SAM order on the day the area went live.

Before I had to ring customers and arranging fitting times now it just happens, before I'd spend the evening checking and faxing orders now SAM has done it all and I spend my time with the family. I book fits allowing 3 van deliveries before fit date and 95% are ok. So I wouldn't want it changed at all. I didn't work for Hillarys when advisors took the phone calls but I would want to be paid far more if I did that as well.

Before you think I'm going soft I still believe the new terms introduced in the last month are almost totally in Hillary's favour and hardly benefit the advisor at all, what amazes me is that advisors seemed to just have accepted it after an initial whinge. If these changes are so easily introduced what's coming next I ask ?

[kakalanka]

Hi all,

I may be unusual (apart from Gloryboy) in my Fitting Appointments habits, but I nearly always use the Sam default date of 2 weeks away and it usually works out fine..........if the customer can be there for the sales appointment on that day, the likelihood is they can be there for the fit 2 weeks later.

As someone who has been with Hillarys for just over a year now I'm not familiar with previous appointment "traditions" and just use a 2 week regime. Where there are supposed delivery issues (wood ventians, venetians, etc.,) I just tell the customer at point of sale that I'll go for 2 weeks, but that 3 weeks may be a possibility and if they do not hear from me, then 2 weeks it is.

Occasionally I get a delivery delay and then I need to make a call, but rarely.

Based on my experiences, I cannot understand why some of you want to spend time phoning people for fits when it can be "done and dusted" at the sale. I have my postcodes divided into different days so it is usually efficient to use this method.

In general I've found fit/delivery times to be a good experience for me but it seems that some of you do not have the same opinion. Of course things do not always go smoothly, but on this issue, for me, I give Hillarys a resounding 7 out of 10.

Incidentally, I'm full-time and run a reasonably successful business and consider it a bad week if I've had to make half-a-dozen phone calls, HO included. I may be lucky but in reality I just can't be arsed with all the hassle of phoning all and sundry every 5 minutes. This is'nt to say I don't have problems/issues but life is too short especially when phoning HO is concerned.

[desmorse]

I'm with pro fit bookers on this. I'd rather book fits at sale, and ring the odd customer, than ring every one. What do you do if your diary is suddenly filled with leads and can't find time to fit? If you have fit only days and are short of work with no fits to do, wouldn't you like some leads instead?

I book fits around 3 weeks ahead, but look very closely at where I am on those days. If I can see I'm in the same area 2 weeks Tuesday or 4 weeks Wednesday, that'll be what's booked. I find a little bit of planning at this stage reduces my traveling and saves me ringing around and trying to squeeze in fits between appointments.

As others have said, it's what ever suits you - would you rather ......

plan at point of sale and risk a few irate customer due to late delivery
or
Plan when you have the blinds and suffer a few irate customers who are told what SAM says.

You "takes yer money and makes yer choice" - but neither method is fool proof

[greenpesto]

I was originally dead against booking fits at point of sale at first but now prefer it.

Or rather, I did until we started getting unreliable deliveries.

On top of this I am suffering from a large number of packages arriving damaged!

The verticals louvre boxes are arriving looking like they've been sat on by 'Two Jags Prescott'!!!!!

I do however agree that we should have the flexibility to work our diary as we want!

AND I STILL HATE SAM!!!!!!!!!!!

[reginald]

what I see here is that we are all modifying the SAM method to suit ourselves as SAM is next to useless if you try to book ahead and rely on Sillarys delivering on time with all the blinds on the order complete and correct.