ADVICE PLEASE

[farmer]

stonehills said:

HERES A QUESTION FOR SOME OF YOU MORE EXPERIENCED AMONGST US.

Just got back from giving a quote, again!!.

3 rollers 275 cm wide in Acacia Ice, no shape.over 500 pounds.

Lady had another company in at 250 pounds with shapes.

Question is this.
Do you beat the quote and half the price and add shapes giving her a massive 60 to 70% discount so reducing your aov, which remember is being heavily scrutinized at the moment.
Or do you walk away, reducing your sale to quote average, which is also being heavily scrutinized at present.
Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Stitched up like kippers with no where to turn.

Red

Get the order at all costs.

It is your lively hood, get the order, if the mamagement above you dont like it, see if they could do any better.
get them out in the field with you, and see what they would do.

actions speak louder than words, .

One minute we are told discount, next we are told we shouldn't. If you have to put the food on the table sell at what ever price you can get.

The mark up on blinds is enormous, let them cut back on all the other expenses 1st, before taking our living.

[farmer]

stonehills said:

greenpesto said:

Red!!!

Dodgy is correct!

Is it worth you doing the job for £36 commission?

If it is then just add to the order that it is a beat-a-quote & don't worry!!!!

If the customer is trying to 'pull a fast one' then why not say that you can't quiet get to that figure but would they meet you half way?
If they are genuine then they normally come up with the extra money!
e.g. Had one yesterday ... sale price was £350 they wanted to pay £250.... Offered them at £290 & got the order.

No,you are all missing the point.
Yes I could have easily dropped the price by more than half and got the order, but my aov figures go down with repercussions.
Same thing if I walk away. My quote to sale figures are down with repercussions. So which ever way I go as far as Hillary's are concerned I am either giving too much discount or not a good salesman. That is the dilemma facing us now.

Red

What repurcussions Red ??

[RED]

farmer said:

stonehills said:

No,you are all missing the point.
Yes I could have easily dropped the price by more than half and got the order, but my aov figures go down with repercussions.
Same thing if I walk away. My quote to sale figures are down with repercussions. So which ever way I go as far as Hillary's are concerned I am either giving too much discount or not a good salesman. That is the dilemma facing us now.

Red

What repurcussions Red ??

Theres lots of repurcusions involved.
For instance. You can hardly discount heavily for one person and then do a house 3 doors down for the full amount. There would be murder if they found out.
Then there the is the fact that if you discount too much whereas another agent in your area is not then who do you think would get the most leads eventually.
Then there is the inevitable phone call as to why you discounted so much. The whole thing has become a political juggling act, trying to earn a living whilst staying within the boundaries expected of you.
Dont get me wrong, I, like most advisor's do discount to secure orders but it is usually only around 10% or so, but my self management thingy says 28%. Dont know how they get that, but there you go.

Red

[greenpesto]

No one in their right mind is going to 'rollock' you over getting an order!!!! ... What fool would?

I've never come across the sort of repercussions you refer to Red.
You are giving yourself reasons not to sell that aren't there.
As others have said ... sell the job if it is worth your while.
If you don't take it then some else will & they'll get the future add-ons & referrals.

Stop listening to FSM's that don't have a clue what it's like out there & still get paid at the end of the month regardless of whether you can pay your mortgage or feed the kids.

When has worrying over your aov ever paid your bills?
You only have to read on to see what I think of statistics.

So ... NO I don't think any of us have missed the point & I hope you don't either!!!

Happy selling!!!!

[Blind Scout]

I just had to discount Capri down to £300 from £490 as indicated by SAM, for 6 windows. Customer had called in and asked CLG if Capri was on 50% sale and told yes. On site she insisted that she always previously had baught Capri on 50% when was in Glasgow. I hjave never seen Capri at that level of discount. So the ads of 3 for 99 are pulling down the normal orders, and it doesn't help when CLG get it wrong time after time. The same customer called in and originaly booked onto my diary. She had to go out and called to cancell the same morning I was to attend, and was told she would have to take the other agent in the area, even though she asked for me bt name (previous customer). So another one of those agent concerns not yet fixed, calls go to any agent available.

[Augustus]

Call up diary M and find out who took the calls -- it's all logged and recorded.
Report it to the team leaders and then ring up again in a week to see what action has been taken.


If they are giving out this kind of info, they won't be for much longer.


P.

[farmer]

stonehills said:

farmer said:

What repurcussions Red ??

Theres lots of repurcusions involved.
For instance. You can hardly discount heavily for one person and then do a house 3 doors down for the full amount. There would be murder if they found out.
Then there the is the fact that if you discount too much whereas another agent in your area is not then who do you think would get the most leads eventually.
Then there is the inevitable phone call as to why you discounted so much. The whole thing has become a political juggling act, trying to earn a living whilst staying within the boundaries expected of you.
Dont get me wrong, I, like most advisor's do discount to secure orders but it is usually only around 10% or so, but my self management thingy says 28%. Dont know how they get that, but there you go.

Red

I take on board what you say Red.

It al a bit of a mish mash isnt it.

the problem we have is that we are all commission only advisors.

We cant go out all day and sell nothing, so what are we suppossed to do.

they have no right to come down on us if we are not meeting their suggested discount levels, etc.

If we were paid a basic wage, and commission, then it might be a different story. unfortunately thats not the case.

With regards to your point about other agents and customers finding out about the fact that they were cheaper "down the road", or from another advisor even, i have experienced this all the time ive been with Hillarys.

It works both ways. I just stress that I am independent, and Bullshit my way out of it. As we say, people buy from people. if need be come clean and tell the customer the truth..

there is no easy answer.

the point i meant was, dont' loose the order for fear of reprisals from f.s.m's or upper management.

at the end of the day you have to earn enough to make the job worthwhile for you, not to boost the bonus of a f.s.m.

[inkjet]

stonehills said:

HERES A QUESTION FOR SOME OF YOU MORE EXPERIENCED AMONGST US.

Just got back from giving a quote, again!!.

3 rollers 275 cm wide in Acacia Ice, no shape.over 500 pounds.

Lady had another company in at 250 pounds with shapes.

Question is this.
Do you beat the quote and half the price and add shapes giving her a massive 60 to 70% discount so reducing your aov, which remember is being heavily scrutinized at the moment.
Or do you walk away, reducing your sale to quote average, which is also being heavily scrutinized at present.
Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Stitched up like kippers with no where to turn.

Red

It is possible to obtain that size blind in Acacia type fabric for £40, so the other company is still doubling its money.

[greenpesto]

With regard to these prices heres something of interest!

I spoke to a blinds manufacturer who supplies to the trade.

I was amazed to see at what price you can get these for if you shop around.

Example:
I've quoted a whole house for verticals using Hillarys 'Sale Offers' at £3200 to £4200 subject to fabric choice.
This pays around £500 commission.

I could buy & then supply & fit a wide range of fabrics that are on a 'par' or even better than Hillarys.
Cost to the customer £2400.
I get paid £1450.

Should Hillarys pay more to it's Sales people?
Could Hillarys afford to pay more to it's Sales people?

Mmmmmn! ... What should I do!!!?

[j]

farmer said:

Had a telephone call from a newly set on advisoress, in my patch today.

Our f.s.m. has asked her to ask me if I would take her out on sales and fits for a day or 2 to show her how to go on.

Anyone tell me what i should do.

Don't do it. What is your FSM there for? I can remember being told FSM's were going to be out with their lambs during sales and fits for 2 weeks or until they were confident.

[j]

stonehills said:

HERES A QUESTION FOR SOME OF YOU MORE EXPERIENCED AMONGST US.

Just got back from giving a quote, again!!.

3 rollers 275 cm wide in Acacia Ice, no shape.over 500 pounds.

Lady had another company in at 250 pounds with shapes.

Question is this.
Do you beat the quote and half the price and add shapes giving her a massive 60 to 70% discount so reducing your aov, which remember is being heavily scrutinized at the moment.
Or do you walk away, reducing your sale to quote average, which is also being heavily scrutinized at present.
Talk about being stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Stitched up like kippers with no where to turn.

Red

I agree with all the comments posted here - do the job if it works for you. A customer will put a blind up and will pay as little as possible.

[desmorse]

We've all thought about trading on our own, and how much more money we could make, but remember there are down sides as well. Like ....
How much money will you spend on advertising to generate leads?
If you want to take credit cards, it'll cost you around 3% of the transaction which could be 6% or more of your profit after ALL costs are taken in to account
What percentage of bad debts/professional complainers could you support? Not only in £££'s, but in time dealing with them when you could be working.
How about VAT? Once your turnover hits the limit, can you put your prices up 17.5%, or do you absorb it from your profits? How about the time and cost involved in doing quarterly VAT returns.
How about the cost of samples? Not only what you're carrying, but any wanted by customers.
How about cash flow? Your supplier may well want money up front until you've built up a trading/credit history. I used to deal with loads of small suppliers, more went bust due to bad debts and cash flow than lack of profitable work.
And then there's bank charges, accountants fees, cost of spare brackets and fixings, and probably 1001 other things I haven't thought of.

For some, all of this will be no problem, you'll relish the challenge and earn lots of money. For others amongst us, we work with Hillarys for different reasons. I get the impression I'm one of several regular posters who have tired of big company, middle/senior management roles and enjoy the freedom of working the Hillarys way, by which I mean self employment without all of the above hassle.
Yes, I'm really p!ssed off by arrogance and/or incompetence of a few, but not the majority, of Hillarys staff. I'm p!ssed off by commission clawbacks, poor quality and late deliveries. I'm not as confident as Hereticus that all this will be sorted out quickly and in our favour, because that's life, you never get everything you want. But I do think Hillarys are at least listening, and have an intention to improve things. After all, it's in their interest too.
So, as I said, those who relish all the hard work listed above, GOOD LUCK, I genuinely wish you well, but go in to it with eyes wide open

[farmer]

newbold said:

greenpesto said:

With regard to these prices heres something of interest!

I spoke to a blinds manufacturer who supplies to the trade.

I was amazed to see at what price you can get these for if you shop around.

Example:
I've quoted a whole house for verticals using Hillarys 'Sale Offers' at £3200 to £4200 subject to fabric choice.
This pays around £500 commission.

I could buy & then supply & fit a wide range of fabrics that are on a 'par' or even better than Hillarys.
Cost to the customer £2400.
I get paid £1450.

Should Hillarys pay more to it's Sales people?
Could Hillarys afford to pay more to it's Sales people?

Mmmmmn! ... What should I do!!!?

Post the contact details of the supplier.

Owl, just log onto the Blinds and Shutters association website, and you will fing every blind supplier in the country. All trade companies too.

he is dead right in what he says, that is why everyman and his dog is setting up on his own.

Ex-Hillarys man in this town ran a £40 box advert for 18 months, and he thrived. thats why he didn't give a d**n when he was found out and left.

He has even set up on his own, with a shop/showroom, has 2 salesman and 2 fitters working for him now.

Still he is making more money after deductions than i, and he does about a 1/rd less.

So I would rather get paid more commission, than have a free bar, and sarnies at the team meetings.
We
definitely should get well, rewarded for self generated leads, even near to the point of getting as much out of the lead as if we were buying our blinds from Arena, their trade company.

So come on HILLARYS lets get on with it, its time we were sorted.

Advisors are packingin all over the place.
Has one just recently packed in and set up on his own in Blackpool? a little birdie has told me.
is it not time they gave us advisors incentives to stay, rather than threatning us with no leads , new advisors etc.
I have been with them longing enough to prove, I do not cherry pick, i am keen, indeed have been 30 miles today to sell a £50 quid roller..If I can't make an appointment, or am running late I ring them and sort it myself. But still feel threatened that if i dont do as i am told other advisors will replace me.
i might be wrong in thinking that, but it has been put across to me that , that is the case.....

So come on Hillarys lets have it sorted

[dibsdobs]

I have copied this from the other site, it seems highly relevant to current thoughts.

I for one take all this seriously and Hillary's time/chance to make a difference is running out.

I was an agent for quite a few years, slowly becoming more and more
disillusioned with Hillary's service, production values, pricing
policy (based on remakes, not quality) and attitude to me and my
agency.

Having seen other agents leave Hillary's and set up with other blind
manufacturers. Companies that have in my opinion stolen the
initiative from Hillary's, and are now imitating them, vastly
improving on the package offered to the agents. I decided to do
something about my frustrations.

Having gone to area meetings and been told from surveys that
customers rated their experience with agents very highly, in fact
above all other criteria. I found this to be at odds with my own
dealings with Hillary's. In other words we the agents made Hillary's
look good!

It finally dawned on me that Hillary's do 2 things. They generate
leads and provide a product, that is basically it. Its relatively
easy to generate leads and companies are falling over themselves
trying to offer product.

The problems I had in running my agency were not with the customer or
my lack of skill, but with Hillary's. The fact that they were
complacent to what I did, is a testament to their naivety, and lack
of concern for agents. Hillary's were holding me back! They don't
like it when you get to big an agency (hence weakening you with new
recruits in your area) or too knowledgeable about blinds outside the
world of Hillary's. I was losing confidence in them fast.

I found another supplier of blinds, bought some sample books and was
selling my own blinds along side Hillary's before I left.

Contrary to belief, Hillary's do not have the largest choice or best
quality of product. What they are good at is mass marketing. Then
letting the agent weed out the chaff, at no expense to them. From
what I can see, current marketing is poor and targets more chaff than
wheat, lowering the customers expectations of Hillary's standards. If
their product, and service to agents lived up to their glossy
brochure we all might of been happier!

I found myself going into houses with Hillary's products, knowing I
had a better product (in most cases), more choice, and better value
to myself and the customer in my vehicle. If the customer struggled
or wanted a better deal I offered my blinds. I very rarely lost an
order.

Hillary's seem to think if a customer wants a blue blind, that is not
in the sale they will buy a green one that is! This does not work. So
it was walk away or discount the green one and get a sale. Then get
an ear bashing from manager for discounting! Now everyone was happy.
My manager because I was not discounting, the customer because they
got the blind they wanted, and me because I made a sale with my
product that would of otherwise gone to a competitor. I also made
more money.

I feel sorry for you lot and the 2 for £99. The very last customer I
went to with Hillary's was torn between a roller blind for £110. One
from Hillary's range and one from mine, that I decided to sell at the
same price. She choose mine and I made £65. That did the trick for me.

I actually look forward to selling roman or wooden blinds now. The
quality I get is far superior to Hillary's, right down to the care
taken in packing it. I used to feel I was deceiving the customer when
selling them a wooden venetian or roman. Premium price for a below
average product. As soon as I took it out of the box I could see
faults, so was the person who put it in the box blind! The wooden
venetian and romans, I get now are far superior to yours in every
way. It annoys me to think of all those years wasted when I wrongly
believed Hillary's product was the best.

My romans do not have visible stitching (that is never straight),
they do not have creasing all over them, and they go up and down
straight. I can also offer blackout lining and make from customers
own fabric, the amount of times I was asked for that at Hillary's and
lost out. I will not even start on other products, you all know the
problems, they are the same they have always been. They never listen
and improve, there seems to be a barrier between area management and
production, thus anything said by agents of constructive importance,
does not get through. The managers have their own agenda and fail to
see the bigger picture and pull it into focus, which would benefit
all. When I was there I had a list of about 20 things that could of
easily been put right at production, but no matter how many times I
told my manager or service support it did not happen. The reason.
Well agents put it right on sight for free, so why put the effort in
at production!

All the extra call outs and repairs, etc. that I did for them went
largely un-rewarded. Again my diligence made them look good. They
just assumed it was my duty to do it. The only reward I would get is
them giving one of my customers to an inferior new agent, who would
then mess things up and ruin any repeat business I had worked hard to
seed. As you know on trying to sort these problems out Hillary's
consistently fail to get a grip and things usually go from bad to
worse!

I am now treated by my present suppliers like someone who brings in
business for them. By that I mean they answer the phone promptly, and
solve problems quickly with competence. They also provide a product
worthy of the price I ask. In fact the complete opposite from my time
at Hillary's.

I have not seen your sam so I cannot comment. It seems like the same
blind intolerance to agents feelings and frustrations. When will
Hillary's realise that you are their best asset? Stop giving one way
traffic and start listening and learning. They never listened or
learnt so I went!

Wake up people, sometimes the grass is greener!

One last point, I have a Hillary's agent in my area that drives a
wreck of a car, with a Hillary's magnetic sign on it. It makes me
laugh, what a great advert for quality blinds! Sure to create the
right impression and bring business in, TO ME! Anyway its the free-
phone number so the leads will not be going to him anyway!

Good luck, but if you have an inkling of professionalism and get up
and go in you, then get up and go! Do not let Hillary's hold you back.

[farmer]

dibsdobs said:

I have copied this from the other site, it seems highly relevant to current thoughts.

I for one take all this seriously and Hillary's time/chance to make a difference is running out.

Motters, or anyone who runs this forum, how can we e-mail this to Mr Risman, and te rest.

If this isnt my ex colleague, then I would love to know who it is , but this posting is absolutely 100% spot on.

gets you thinking......

I was an agent for quite a few years, slowly becoming more and more
disillusioned with Hillary's service, production values, pricing
policy (based on remakes, not quality) and attitude to me and my
agency.

Having seen other agents leave Hillary's and set up with other blind
manufacturers. Companies that have in my opinion stolen the
initiative from Hillary's, and are now imitating them, vastly
improving on the package offered to the agents. I decided to do
something about my frustrations.

Having gone to area meetings and been told from surveys that
customers rated their experience with agents very highly, in fact
above all other criteria. I found this to be at odds with my own
dealings with Hillary's. In other words we the agents made Hillary's
look good!

It finally dawned on me that Hillary's do 2 things. They generate
leads and provide a product, that is basically it. Its relatively
easy to generate leads and companies are falling over themselves
trying to offer product.

The problems I had in running my agency were not with the customer or
my lack of skill, but with Hillary's. The fact that they were
complacent to what I did, is a testament to their naivety, and lack
of concern for agents. Hillary's were holding me back! They don't
like it when you get to big an agency (hence weakening you with new
recruits in your area) or too knowledgeable about blinds outside the
world of Hillary's. I was losing confidence in them fast.

I found another supplier of blinds, bought some sample books and was
selling my own blinds along side Hillary's before I left.

Contrary to belief, Hillary's do not have the largest choice or best
quality of product. What they are good at is mass marketing. Then
letting the agent weed out the chaff, at no expense to them. From
what I can see, current marketing is poor and targets more chaff than
wheat, lowering the customers expectations of Hillary's standards. If
their product, and service to agents lived up to their glossy
brochure we all might of been happier!

I found myself going into houses with Hillary's products, knowing I
had a better product (in most cases), more choice, and better value
to myself and the customer in my vehicle. If the customer struggled
or wanted a better deal I offered my blinds. I very rarely lost an
order.

Hillary's seem to think if a customer wants a blue blind, that is not
in the sale they will buy a green one that is! This does not work. So
it was walk away or discount the green one and get a sale. Then get
an ear bashing from manager for discounting! Now everyone was happy.
My manager because I was not discounting, the customer because they
got the blind they wanted, and me because I made a sale with my
product that would of otherwise gone to a competitor. I also made
more money.

I feel sorry for you lot and the 2 for £99. The very last customer I
went to with Hillary's was torn between a roller blind for £110. One
from Hillary's range and one from mine, that I decided to sell at the
same price. She choose mine and I made £65. That did the trick for me.

I actually look forward to selling roman or wooden blinds now. The
quality I get is far superior to Hillary's, right down to the care
taken in packing it. I used to feel I was deceiving the customer when
selling them a wooden venetian or roman. Premium price for a below
average product. As soon as I took it out of the box I could see
faults, so was the person who put it in the box blind! The wooden
venetian and romans, I get now are far superior to yours in every
way. It annoys me to think of all those years wasted when I wrongly
believed Hillary's product was the best.

My romans do not have visible stitching (that is never straight),
they do not have creasing all over them, and they go up and down
straight. I can also offer blackout lining and make from customers
own fabric, the amount of times I was asked for that at Hillary's and
lost out. I will not even start on other products, you all know the
problems, they are the same they have always been. They never listen
and improve, there seems to be a barrier between area management and
production, thus anything said by agents of constructive importance,
does not get through. The managers have their own agenda and fail to
see the bigger picture and pull it into focus, which would benefit
all. When I was there I had a list of about 20 things that could of
easily been put right at production, but no matter how many times I
told my manager or service support it did not happen. The reason.
Well agents put it right on sight for free, so why put the effort in
at production!

All the extra call outs and repairs, etc. that I did for them went
largely un-rewarded. Again my diligence made them look good. They
just assumed it was my duty to do it. The only reward I would get is
them giving one of my customers to an inferior new agent, who would
then mess things up and ruin any repeat business I had worked hard to
seed. As you know on trying to sort these problems out Hillary's
consistently fail to get a grip and things usually go from bad to
worse!

I am now treated by my present suppliers like someone who brings in
business for them. By that I mean they answer the phone promptly, and
solve problems quickly with competence. They also provide a product
worthy of the price I ask. In fact the complete opposite from my time
at Hillary's.

I have not seen your sam so I cannot comment. It seems like the same
blind intolerance to agents feelings and frustrations. When will
Hillary's realise that you are their best asset? Stop giving one way
traffic and start listening and learning. They never listened or
learnt so I went!

Wake up people, sometimes the grass is greener!

One last point, I have a Hillary's agent in my area that drives a
wreck of a car, with a Hillary's magnetic sign on it. It makes me
laugh, what a great advert for quality blinds! Sure to create the
right impression and bring business in, TO ME! Anyway its the free-
phone number so the leads will not be going to him anyway!

Good luck, but if you have an inkling of professionalism and get up
and go in you, then get up and go! Do not let Hillary's hold you back.